Email Dialogs: “Mayanist or Maya. Do You Care???”

Definitely some good points, Andi. Thanks for logging them. I have to say that the argument for the plagiarism(?) being a detriment to Calleman’s work doesn’t hold for the very reasons you have mentioned, that history builds on itself, from generation to generation, and we all collaborate with each other in some form. Isn’t this how we evolve as a species?

Thanks again for your critical handling of the various questions that come up.

Dear Jonathan…

Glad to see you in the blog! You know… it always surprises me what happens when communication has a chance to take. A wonderful surprise. - Andi

This discussion is interesting, and yet it seems yet another crucial point to bring up.

I am personally flabbergasted at Calleman’s discoveries. I don’t need another interpreter for my own realizations; I just look at the data available and recognize the patterns. Patterns have always interested me since I was at least 13 years old; that is clear to me.

It’s my understanding that what the Maya contributed was not originally theirs in that through the field effect of consciousness (or perhaps actual communication with the Vedas?) at the time, they came to a common realization.

Just experiencing the field effect in action seems to suggest that no individual, group or otherwise separate entity actually owns any rights to information.

With that in mind, if we want to take the argument that Calleman’s work isn’t really “Mayan” and doesn’t follow the traditional Mayan teaching, then what about where the Maya got “their” information?

The mind seems to want to always put a name and tag to everything for identification purposes.

In light of that, should we eventually change the tag from “Mayan” to something more universal? Just a thought I’m having.

Maybe it is important to maintain the Mayan identity for now, but I can’t see how keeping that would help in the long run.

What are your thoughts? If my logic and reasoning strings seem a little broken anywhere, I’d be happy to see where they might be. My mind tends to make jumps from one thought process to another, assuming others can make the same jump and continue following along while filling in the gap. Uhhh…I could use a little better practice in that. :p

The mind *does* put tags on everything. It is an identifier by it’s nature. It is conditioned in this way - not by society but through it’s makeup… which can evolve.

Good morning Jonathan,

The identification of Carl’s work as “Mayan” or not “Mayan” is a philosophical argument. Perhaps you’ve noticed as I have these arguments often lead nowhere.

While we could change the name it would be a changed name in a new box. What has changed? But maybe you’re right…

It still comes down to very simple things like if one doesn’t use the discoveries - test them out personally then it’s just philosophy… not very useful.

There is nothing new under the sun. What can be made new is our perception of *what is*. You see?

So someone wants to say Carl’s work is not Mayan. How do they know?

He is forthcoming about where he took leaps with his findings. He states clearly that the names of the underworlds were his; by using modern historical and biological data.

And there is no disagreement that his work is not traditional according to the traditions of today.

After 1,000 years of distance between the ancient and modern Maya, along with 500 years of Catholic oppression, there’s a lot of tradition among the modern Maya that didn’t exist at all for the ancients.

Does that make them wrong? Of course not…

The more valuable aspects get easily lost in these debates and so we can choose to gently bring the conversation back to what’s actually useful.

Using Carl’s work, can you see that the consciousness of the National Underworld is at work here? The dedication to nation, tribe, kindred. The need to identify to nation and people. The path of identification to a name or a place.

There’s nothing wrong with it - the point is to recognize it and begin to question the value of it in the bigger picture. Is a flag or a tradition or a ritual what identifies us? For some… yes.

People kill other people in the name of a nation. It’s still going on.

It is war and the root of war is in the mind.

Everything now - if one is to wake up and live with peace - everything comes down to how we perceive the world in us and around us. Evolution in motion… what the Mayan calendar - by whatever name we call it - is tracking.

- Andi

He is forthcoming about where he took leaps with his findings. He states clearly that the names of the underworlds were his; by using modern historical and biological data.

I can vouch for this because I had just finished his book The Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Consciousness a couple of weeks ago, in which I always make tons of highlighting. And I do remember him pointing it out.

Using Carl’s work, can you see that the consciousness of the National Underworld is at work here? The dedication to nation, tribe, kindred. The need to identify to nation and people. The path of identification to a name or a place.

I can certainly, which is what I’ve loved getting an understanding about with his discoveries. I’m still working on getting the revelations from the charts he’s put together put to memory and chewing on them. I’m still a noob, but what is so amazing is that I am GETTING what is presented. yay^^ The feeling is like something I’ve already known somewhere deep down inside and “thank you, Mr. Calleman for pointing it out and clarifying for me.”

What is interesting to me also is that each successive underworld is a bit more refined in “separation.” You mentioned “war,” and I automatically think “separation” in the mind.